x11 vs wayland performance

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Date: 12/12/2022

In the past we've looked at the Radeon Linux gaming performance for X.Org vs. Wayland. I have read and understood the privacy policy, and am able to consent to it. The X server, Wayland compositors, and Mir are implementations of display servers. Simply forwarding these commands to the guivm would be dangerous, so we would need to process within the Xorg server then send the displaylist sometime before the end of processing and rendering. Wayland relies on the display device EDID obtained via the KMS driver (as does Xorg). However, It still may make graphics acceleration with GPU passthrough easier, as there is no need to mess with X11 graphics extensions, only OpenGL/CL libraries. (I may also just be misunderstanding X Display Lists though). Wayland's main advantage over X is that it starts from scratch. My phone has 320+dpi. The API for 3 sounds (deceptively?) small: I believe this API already exists, it is called "DMA-BUF". The clients applications need to communicate with the X11 server before the compositor (window manager) can generate the window that is needed for the application to render properly. Seems to me to be similar to virtualizing a CPU without SLAT. It doesn't make sense that a credit card sized PC can run 64-bit Ubuntu this well. X11 is very resilient to such things, part of the reason I can think is the age of the codebase. But at least for GNOME, there is big push to client-side decorations, so I'm not so sure about it. For a complete list of X releases check out their website. It may also be possible to do this in X11 with proper proxying of MIT-SHM, but I can't find any code doing it, and doing so may increase complexity significantly. Wayland simplifies the graphics stack by trying to force everything through a GEM/DRM stack and straight into the kernel. It has released multiple improvements and currently posts these to this websitewhen they unveil new versions. With Wayland graphics processing happens within the context of the application, and only a framebuffer is shared to the compositor. But I need to run some tests, compare Have a question about this project? If you are running production systems or systems that rely on legacy applications, then X11 will be the better choice for you. Watch in 1080p 60p for best result. #archlinux #godofwarpc #linuxgamingPC SpecsSystem specsAMD 3900XT (PBO enabled) - No OC - governor was set to performance by Gamemode and CoreCTRLAMD Sapphir. I'm on Ubuntu 22.04.1, all latest updates, Nvidia 1650 Q Max with 515 proprietary, and latest steam. But in the first version it probably will have full control. Trap-and-emulate (shadow page tables). X11 has been around for a while, and is starting to show its age thanks to legacy code that bloats the system. Wayland also removes X11's client-server concept (usually for the better), but you might find that remote desktops don't work the way you're used to. Can XWayland be used as a transitional option, if shmoverride is applied to the Wayland compositor too? Witness the smoothness and snappiness of Ubuntu, on a credit card sized computer with 4 GB of RAM. A completely stuttery mess on high framrates/refresh rate. Wayland vs X11 Battery Performance Hi, I am quite willing to try Wayland though it's still not too developed in terms of stability when compared to X11 but I came across some claims that since Wayland is newer the battery performance is better on Wayland than X11. http://phd.mupuf.org/files/fosdem2013_drinext_drm2.pdf specifically references Qubes, so I would hope that security has been a legitimate consideration in the new API development. Wayland handles the clipboard differently from X11, so some programs might not copy and paste as expected. I actually enjoy using it now. From what I understand, this is true in "standard" Wayland, but there is a wlroots protocol extension, "input inhibitor", that allows the screen locker to operate as a separate process. privacy statement. These actions include clicking on a checkbox, moving the windows, clicking a button, etc. The GVT-g approach of "just try to arbitrate everything in software" strongly reminds one of Xen paravirtualization, which we've moved away from in R4 because it's proven too hard to get right and became a liability. Yesterday it was crap, and ran like expected, today it's a new machine. I have read and understood the privacy policy and am able to consent to it. Currently we only have one GuiVM (dom0) which must already be ultimately trusted and already has full access to everything anyway. Wayland is also superior when it comes to security. Furthermore, it manages compositing itself. The reality is that it has been developed over a very long period, which still contains many legacy components within its code that make it very difficult to develop any further. This cuts out any server type component that acts as a middleman, and lets the application communicate directly with the compositor that it wishes to render a window for. This stability comes at a performance cost, however. Please include what you were doing when this page came up and the Cloudflare Ray ID found at the bottom of this page. Shared memory does open us up to easy cache attacks, but I can't think of any one can do based off of a framebuffer, especially since one does not generally draw directly onto it because of double buffering, IIRC. Because Wayland is a protocol it takes quite a different approach to traditional X11 programmed applications, which also hampers its adoption. AFAIR, a lot of OpenGL operations are preformed within the X server through the X OpenGL extensions. It's better now though a small difference is still perceptible between the two. There are also a lot of new features that you can experiment with, like GPU sharing or Wayland specific compositors to try out. 200.43.8.16 This should be much more efficient (both in CPU usage and power consumption) than CPU-side compositing by the X server, but requires caution to ensure that a client cannot draw outside of what Qubes OS considers the borders of its window. However it has the disadvantage of being a lot more buggy and requiring . However, I'd say that it's worth trying out now at least, especially for people who mainly use their RPi as a desktop computer. Sign in This should be much more efficient (both in CPU usage and power consumption) than CPU-side compositing by the X server, but requires caution to ensure that a client cannot draw outside of what Qubes OS considers the borders of its window. This means that we can simply attach GVT-g or comparable hardware graphics virtualuization to VMs without complex modifications to guid. This has slowed down adoption to a certain extent, but most popular Linux distributions have made it available as part of their environments. These parameters include screen size of the window, position and state (minimized, maximized etc). I haven't seen any technical write-ups yet, but I'm willing to bet there are still plenty more holes in that interface. Multiple X11 sommelier instances can be used for improved isolation or when per-client configuration is needed, but it will be at the cost of losing the ability for programs to use the X server for communication between each other. Wayland has been in development for a long time, so it is quite possible that unexpected issues could delay it even further. If the X11 sommelier instance crashes in this setup, it takes all running X11 programs down with it. @marmarek: How much will the GUI protocol need to change? Wayland has two communication methods; Commands over a Unix socket, and shared memory buffers through a file descriptor with mmap. Already on GitHub? Couple it with recently released Firefox 89 which seems to have gotten a performance boost, and I'm officially in heaven. I think we could still reduce RAM usage by sharing the same memory for the framebuffer in the client in the AppVM, the stub compositor in the AppVM, the stub client in the GuiVM, and the real compositor in the GuiVM. This is why it is possible to forward X11 sessions over SSH, giving you a secure remote session to a graphical desktop on a networked server or PC. In this post, we will compare Wayland to X11, look at the advantages of each one, and learn more about window management in Linux. I'm really sorry for this happened. This means that applications that wish to use Wayland need to give all of their display information to Wayland. Which means, between all of your displays you can only have 32,768 pixels. It is not an application or a downloadable program. No one expects Wayland to already support everything it has to. Thanks! Wayland uses a simple, modern approach: client side rendering. https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/gui/#window-content-updates-implementation, https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-gui-agent-linux/blob/master/xf86-input-mfndev/src/qubes.c, https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-gui-agent-linux/blob/8c1238b/gui-agent/vmside.c#L261-L303, https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-gui-daemon/blob/94fd49d/gui-daemon/xside.c#L2274-L2363, Change default screen locker from XScreenSaver, http://phd.mupuf.org/files/fosdem2013_drinext_drm2.pdf, Make sharing a single window work with Jitsi in Firefox, https://spectrum-os.org/lists/hyperkitty/list/discuss@spectrum-os.org/thread/3VYGG3QLV37IJDQL3SZZMTOTJ5ZZKZFL/, https://app.bountysource.com/issues/52352776-use-wayland-instead-of-x11-to-increase-performance, https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform2/+/HEAD/vm_tools/sommelier/. This thing is now officially a (secondary) desktop computer. All tested Wayland compositors have achieved a slightly better frame rate than the X11 ones. All rendering in the guests happen in software, and IMO that's very unlikely to change unless GPUs get proper memory protection so e.g. Did anyone get a chance to try the following? As a result, today, X11 acts largely as "a really terrible" communications protocol between the client and the window manager. A little update on this: I found part of the reason why X11 wasn't as fast as Wayland for me. Other approaches which somehow result in at least some kind of indirect hw acceleration like Virgil 3d (translate/emulate shader IL) is a graphics-analog of QEMU (in full instruction emulation mode no less! The text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: Not to rain on the wayland parade, but I'm not convinced the potential benefit over the current system is as large as you portray. However, down the road it is desirable to move the window manager out of dom0 and remove its ability to control dom0 (and in certain use cases perhaps also remove its ability to control some other VMs managed by an external admin). There isnt currently an official draft standard to make Wayland the standard, which means that it could still be some time before it becomes accepted as a mainstream alternative to X11. 2 comments 100% Upvoted Wayland has the advantage of being visibly faster, to the point where you can see the mouse cursor and desktop effects working more smoothly. As things stand, X11 is probably still the better choice, just from a compatibility perspective. Copyright 2012 KDE Community Forum Team. If you are looking to experiment and try out something new, then Wayland is a great way to do just that. And I am interested in being a GSoC mentor for Qubes again. Seems like it can be used as X11 compositor as well, and can replace current qubes-gui and qubes-guid. Wayland allows one to attach multiple displays with different densities, which is important for people with HiDPI laptops who want to use external displays. Clarification: theoretically GuiVM may not have full control over input. Just as X.org didn't have XRandr and Xcomposite and XRender from day one, so Wayland doesn't have some features from day one. Although this is not a security issue due to the guid security model, there are several advantages to using Wayland instead of X11: If allocations are on page boundaries, then we can use xc_map_foreign_rage (or the equivalent in the HAL) to map framebuffer pages directly from the client in the VM to the compositor in the guivm, Since framebuffers are mapped instead of copied, the proxy wayland compositor should use less memory than xorg (On a VM which currently has 800M of RAM and two windows, Xorg is using 1/6th of the physical memory). Yeah, not the biggest fan of Gnome myself, due to how resource heavy it is on weaker hardware, and not really a fan of the design language, so I usually go for a minimal install with Openbox. This can be attributed to the simplified graphics stack in Wayland. Thu May 28, 2020 2:54 pm I'm having a hard time deciding whether to use X11 or Wayland for my KDE / Plasma session as I seek the best from both worlds. because I'm always using remote connection to use my pi, and with wayland the experience is really bad and I can't use V3D, only the software renderer. It has been in development for some time, which has left many people wondering if it will actually materialize as a viable alternative to X11. Wayland also aims to be easier to integrate into Linux systems with more straight-forward code. I believe this is highly unlikely to happen. My understanding is that that is just buffer management everything else is handled in hardware. However, wl_shm::create_pool and wl_shm events should be . Paravirtualization. Too complex? The simpler code that has been written for this protocol also gives it a performance edge over X11. Wayland has two communication methods; Commands over a Unix socket, and shared memory buffers through a file descriptor with mmap. Remember the Golden Rule of Selling: Do not resort to violence.McGlashan. X server can do that too if you enable compositing in window manager I'm having a hard time deciding whether to use X11 or Wayland for my KDE / Plasma session as I seek the best from both worlds. Pro Better security Reduced use of root and isolating the input and output of every window. We can remove GVT-g from the picture: I thought it used newer isolation features since my laptop didn't support it, but I guess not. This means that we can simply attach GVT-g or comparable hardware graphics virtualuization to VMs without complex modifications to guid. Raspberry Pi 4 Ubuntu 21.04 testing Wayland VS X11 - YouTube 0:00 / 6:50 Raspberry Pi 4 Ubuntu 21.04 testing Wayland VS X11 19,073 views Apr 27, 2021 checking out ubuntu 21.04 on. settings (I think it's enabled by default). XFCE4, LXQt, i3-WM, WireGuard, Samba, Kodi, Latest MESA graphics drivers! It can then be loaded at boot with the appropriate boot parameter. X11 is the protocol implemented by X Windows System while Wayland is the protocol used by Wayland Compositor. In the final analysis, you should try installing a fresh OSwith X11 and Wayland and then test it for yourself. Re: Wayland alternatives to X11 commands. My question is, XWayland is more performatic than X11 for gaming or it's just a specific case? Plasma would just crash. I had performance regression with Manjaro / Sway / Firefox 89 , https://github.com/manjaro-arm-community/sway-images, https://github.com/manjaro-arm-communit .04.img.xz, https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/sata sb-adapter, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuXsupMuik4, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ug/1930982, https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/wiki/ yz_problem, https://9to5linux.com/collaboras-waylan or-support. Wayland is trying to develop a new way of managing your graphical system and how you interact with it. I refer you to https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/gui/#window-content-updates-implementation, Nevertheless, I will have to look into how much the GuiVM is trusted, IIUC it is ultimately trusted by necessity. The current gui protocol/implementation already does have guests blit directly to a shared-memory framebuffer not requiring any copying between VMs. X11 Sommelier Method. I think KDE, GNOME, and Sway (i3 clone) support server-side decorations, so it shouldn't be too bad. An AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT graphics card was used for all the testing today with many of the games being tested at both 1080p and 4K. I found this Wayland/X11 nested compositor from ChromiumOS: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform2/+/HEAD/vm_tools/sommelier/. Sign up for a free GitHub account to open an issue and contact its maintainers and the community. Take what I advise as advice not the utopian holy grail, and it is gratis !! We can simply forward events for screen update to the client, although we have to deal with anonymity for anon-whonix, where position of multiple displays could be very revealing. Lots of screen flickering, in fact, it's my new strobe light for inducing personal seizures. X11 is primarily a display protocol, so it was designed to render graphics over the network. Raspberry Pi and Android both support Wayland out of the box with no need for any additional drivers. So I just updated Ubuntu to 21.04 on my RPi 4 (4GB) yesterday, and I'm shocked at how smooth and snappy it is now after the Wayland migration. Well occasionally send you account related emails. If you also consider that Wayland is a newer project, it has had less time to gather deprecated and bloated code, making it more agile and reactive than the aged X11 protocol. I'm definitely in no position to make any promises about this project, but I look forward to seeing a proposal and your patches in general :). Well, here it is. As @jpouellet said, benefits may not be that large. This video goes over what Wayland and Xorg do. Cloudflare Ray ID: 777eeb625de7f81a Probably the biggest one from the graphics side is that Wayland doesn't do any drawing. what has changed with the new ISOs is that plasma-wayland-session is installed now by default and that gives you the option to choose between Wayland and X11 on the logon screen (lower left corner)." This comment indicates that Wayland session has been removed for future ISO Did Manjaro KDE switched to Wayland? You can. However, this is also one of the few games stuck to running in windowed mode due to issues introduced with recent updates to the game when benchmarking. However, that reminds me of another problem: Screen lockers, like the rest of the compositor, are all part of the same window manager process. Wayland has the advantage of being visibly faster, to the point where you can see the mouse cursor and desktop effects working more smoothly. Also, it seems that modern drivers already virtualize the GPU, with isolation enforced either in hardware or software. I'm waiting for this one to try out Cubes OS. Wayland adds clear separation of applications. There are several actions that could trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command or malformed data. This presumes that those are not in the GPUs address space. without copying inside gui-daemon. The performance of Gnome (w/ both Wayland and X11) is essentially very much the same (if anything I lose about 5-10fps but no big deal when I'm playing anywhere from 135-160fps). I can think of a few solutions: Do not expose the MMU to VMs attempts to modify the MMU from a VM are trapped and ignored. Since switching to a 144 Hz monitor, I visually noticed that desktop compositing still runs at 60 FPS in the X11 Plasma session (doesn't affect Wayland). It pits Wayland vs Xorg but each has their place. https://spectrum-os.org/lists/hyperkitty/list/discuss@spectrum-os.org/thread/3VYGG3QLV37IJDQL3SZZMTOTJ5ZZKZFL/, There is now a bounty for this issue https://app.bountysource.com/issues/52352776-use-wayland-instead-of-x11-to-increase-performance, I found this Wayland/X11 nested compositor from ChromiumOS: It also makes tasks such as dragging windows, resizing them or switching them to full screen feel that much more smooth and modern. . A 97-page guide to every Cisco, Juniper, F5, and NetApp certification, and how they fit into your career. By clicking Sign up for GitHub, you agree to our terms of service and However, wl_shm::create_pool and wl_shm events should be intercepted so that the stub compositor and guivm wayland client both create file descriptors in their VMs, and the guivm maps a foreign range (or asks dom0 to do so, I'm not sure quite how that would work) to link together the contents of those two memory ranges. It all boils down to what you want to do with your graphical system, what kind of environment you will be running your system in, and compatibility between your applications and Wayland. At minimum, it would just be to have coloured decorations. All other games work fine, tried several different video drivers in pairing with several different Proton drivers, just no luck. Wayland has the advantage of being visibly faster, to the point where you can see the mouse cursor and desktop effects working more smoothly. https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=423230. X has two drawing APIs. I would be interested in working on this for Google Summer of Code if the Qubes project decides to join. on a single user pc its mostly a "security circus" I disagree. specifically to map the composition buffers directly into X server, The user-space start-up time was quicker with the Wayland-based GNOME 3.26 Shell session taking just 22.4 seconds compared to 25.3 seconds reported by systemd when using the GNOME Shell on X.Org. Wayland functionality for Spectrum OS will be integrated into upstream Wayland, which might be interesting for Qubes OS: Nevertheless, I will have to look into how much the GuiVM is trusted, and if cache attacks originating from it would be a concern. Click to reveal One of the main reasons for X's complexity is that, over the years, its role has changed. The first and most obvious reason why you would want to use Wayland instead of X11 is the reduced latency between opening an application and having it render on your desktop. This means that we may have to make significant changes to each desktop environment. One of these is a part of the core X11 protocol, which is ancient, useless, and nobody uses. We only need to handle rendering commands (nothing else makes sense for a VM to do). Commands, including shared memory setup and keyboard input, should be proxied through a client in the guivm and a stub compositor in the appvm. Wayland is designed to be easier to use than X11. It may be reduced to only controlling input focus. They have a lot in common but also some key differences mainly in the way that the graphical data is relayed between application, window manager/compositor. I also break down what the differences are between them and my personal experiences with each.. The reference Wayland implementation is the Weston compositor. All rights reserved.KDE Community Forums has no liability for any content or post. Registered users: acrux, Bing [Bot], claydoh, Daphazard, daret, dionatandiego, Google [Bot], Stephen Leibowitz, Powered by phpBB 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group. Firefox is particularly bad for this. It is written in C++ and Thomas Leonard found that it kept crashing for him. This process is the client side rendering aspect that we mentioned above. X11 doesn't support RDP, it supports fake input and screen capture which RDP servers use though. This seems simple not more complicated than Xens own management of CPU memory, or a kernels management of mmapd buffers. The protocol that Wayland uses also makes it easier for designers and developers alike to create cross-platform apps, which have always suffered from problems rendering on Linuxdue to compatibility issues between various versions of GTK or Qt. It is lightweight, and it will not take up as many resources on your system as X11 would, although modern systems tend to handle X11 just fine. This is by far the best way to see what works best for your own specific needs. By submitting this form you agree that you have read, understood, and are able to consent to our privacy policy. There is no right answer because both Wayland and X11 are great options with their own pluses and minuses that make them unique in different ways. So, from me, including GSoC 2018 (we will apply this year too). This topic has 1 reply, 2 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 2 months ago by fisherman. X11 has been in use for a very long time by computing standards, and it is reliable and stable. On most systems, the difference is that wayland is tear-free by default and it's faster than tear-free X11. For the benchmarks today was loading up a clean install of Ubuntu 21.04 with its Linux 5.11 kernel, GNOME Shell 3.38.4, and Mesa 21.0.1 while looking at the gaming performance between the X.Org and Wayland sessions. I think KDE, GNOME, and Sway (i3 clone) support server-side decorations, so it shouldn't be too bad. Windows XP has 96dpi. I'm having a hard time deciding whether to use X11 or Wayland for my KDE / Plasma session as I seek the best from both worlds. I would be interested in working on this for Google Summer of Code if the Qubes project decides to join. You signed in with another tab or window. As of this beta the WebXR support for Godot 4 is now fully on par . Modern GPUs support both, so one could use hardware isolation between VMs, and software isolation within a VM. While obviously suboptimal, this approach works fantastically in one (very important, IMO) use case: gaming. On twin-GPU systems, where one GPU is not connected to any display, we can give that GPU to a VM entirely, relying on the IOMMU to prevent access to GPU-internal registers and firmware. (X11) might offer better performance. Wayland is cool but only supported by GNOME, KDE and sway. The API for 3 sounds (deceptively?) One major advantage of Wayland is that Wayland subsurfaces can be mapped by the GUIVM and composited on the GPU. On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 08:34:59AM -0700, Demi Marie Obenour wrote: A few thoughts I wanted to write down so I don't forget: The main reason I wanted to start this in the first place was multiple DPI support, and that could be useful, although we have to deal with privacy concerns. Raspberry Pi 4B 4GB / Bullseye 64-bit Beta / Openbox / Thunar. Commands, including shared memory setup and keyboard input, should be proxied through a client in the guivm and a stub compositor in the appvm. Part of this legacy structure is the client/server model that it employs to render windows. Another big change with Godot 4.0 Beta 8 is that the WebXR support is now fully working. While I managed to tweak my desktop settings to prevent the base crashes, I'm now facing. This is reliable, but it is very slow by modern standards, and when comparing it to newer systems, such as Wayland. Wayland is a display server protocol that is a FreeDesktop.org project with development being driven by multiple organizations. In simple terms, X Windows System and Wayland determine how your program's display will appear depending on your actions. Viewing 2 posts - 1 through 2 (of 2 total) . Add in higher resolutions AND multiple displays.and things get dicey REALLY quickly. The action you just performed triggered the security solution. The power usage, frame 'lateness' (difference between target display time and actual time), and CPU usage are shown, with Wayland providing a dramatic improvement in all these metrics. Your IP: Wayland and X11 are two different display server technologies that allow you to see your desktop and manage the windows that each application and tool generates on the desktop. CBT Nuggets uses cookies to give you the best experience on our website. An X11 sommelier instance provides X11 forwarding. I understand this will be a long wait. Most of the hardware that supports Wayland is Intels open source driver or AMDs open source driver. Firefox is particularly bad for this. We use MIT-SHM extension This website is using a security service to protect itself from online attacks. advantages of Wayland is that its faster That's a strange advantage to list. Wayland has also been designed with security in mind and is not vulnerable to the same types of attacks that X11 is, such as the Unauthenticated Access exploit, although this has been patched in later releases for the most part. I'll wait until it's ported to more DE's. X has no issue with this so I use that on the desktop. The memory use was looking at the freshly booted system's memory usage from Fedora 27 Workstation under X.Org and Wayland while idling at the desktop . Awesome. Wayland also aims to be easier to integrate into Linux systems with more straight-forward code. That said, due to Wayland's forced vsync, gaming on it is utterly digusting. I recommend against Sommelier. I am starting work on forwarding Wayland between VMs. The X11 machine runs the ChromeOS X11 driver, with a client which plays video through OpenGL ES at all times. It's shockingly snappy, but be sure to run it from an SSD or else you'll have a bad time! But this could be still useful thing to do. As far as graphics acceleration, modern GPUs do have an MMU that can enforce page protection. Instead, it is a standard or specification that needs to be adopted by window managers and desktop e12/1nvironments. Further research does show it is basically PV. Linux has had many vulnerabilities, but none in the mmap code, if I understand correctly. Wayland was created by a project called the Wayland project. There are lots of differences between X and Wayland. Glitches with Wayland still are (Based on this week's test on Plasma 5.21.1): Horrible performance compared to X11; Very crashy, especially when hotplugging secondary display. Gaming on X11 vs XWayland Yesterday I tried a SDL2 game (Salt and Sanctuary) on SwayWM XWayland then I installed I3-WM to try performance on native X11 and for my surprise, the game was running much better on XWayland. Thanks! This is a different entity than X11, which was created by the Open Group as an extension of XFree86s design. I have had much the same question: is Wayland, which is more elegantly programmed and, when it works, faster, given that it has so many issues? Performance & security by Cloudflare. As it stands currently, Wayland has support in the GNOME desktop environment and some other platforms such as KDEs KWin. One major advantage of Wayland is that Wayland subsurfaces can be mapped by the GUIVM and composited on the GPU. Forums / NoMachine Terminal Server Products / Virtual Desktop : Wayland vs. X11 - Gnome Classic vs. Gnome Standard. The application itself draws the window that it will run in, instead of like in the case of the X11 server that needed to relay this information back and forth between the application and the compositor. However, this means that applications that wish to support Wayland will need to be updated or rewritten entirely as a different version to support this new standard. [NEW] Ubuntu - CM4/RPi4B custom image(s)! The performance in those other workloads was obviously unchanged but it was the overall RAM usage and power consumption we were most curious about: Over the course of all the benchmarks ran, using the GNOME Wayland session led to ~200MB higher RAM usage compared to the X.Org session. Some examples of Linux distributions that support Wayland are: The alpha version of Wayland 1.19.0 was released January 27, 2021. ), which Qubes has explicitly architected around not trusting. https://spectrum-os.org/ is a project to build a compartmentalized OS on crosvm, nixos, and wayland, still early days but really exciting. Wouldn't using wayland increase the security of xscreensaver too? Use Wayland instead of X11 to increase performance. I hope it is true. X11 for desktop Wayland for Laptop reasoning, everything I need to do works perfectly fine or even better on Wayland. X11 (version 11 of X Server) has been in use since 1987, so it is well past its expiration date. There is currently no working draft to make it a standard. Godot continues making improvements to both its X11 and Wayland back-ends while this support on Linux to dynamically load X11 is important for the future Wayland-focused modern Linux desktop. Under X11, the global pixel counter is 15bits. Normally it should run at the monitor's active refresh rate. The basic concept behind the process model for Wayland is that it is the server and client combined, which means it communicates directly with the compositor. That is to say, the GuiVM is obviously necessarily in the TCB of any VM which it controls input to / sees output from. Touchpad gestures being one of them. to your account. Wayland rendering performance on X11? Even with the problems @jpouellet mentioned, I think that there still could be be some advantages. This means Wayland will need to be adopted by the Linux Foundation and other organizations who can help with development, testing, and promoting its use before it becomes an official standard. Screen lockers, like the rest of the compositor, are all part of the same window manager process. That is to say, the GuiVM is obviously necessarily in the TCB of any VM which it controls input to / sees output from. Wayland could make things easier here. One of the exceptions was Civilization VI running slower on Wayland than X.Org. Wayland handles the clipboard differently from X11, so some programs might not copy and paste as expected. In a majority of the native Linux games as well as Steam Play titles, the GNOME Wayland session with Ubuntu 21.04 . Here are some benchmarks of the NVIDIA 510 driver on the current state of Ubuntu 22.04 LTS. Long ago, a server would handle all the rendering requests and a rendering workstation would receive the graphics and windows that the server created. Even just yesterday's OS X security advisory had 3 new CVEs for their intel graphics driver interface, allowing sandbox escapes & privilege escalation. Get great content delivered to your inbox. Just wanted to say hi. small: Of course, these are just ideas, and I could be completely and utterly wrong. Was just complaining about the refresh-rate bug that keeps me from fully enjoying my transition to Gnome. It looks like NVIDIA and AMD also have some interesting (SR-IOV for AMD) isolation features for fancier GPUs, although those seem really really expensive and only easily available on certain servers. The desktop is very smooth and there's no tearing anymore, on the other hand, Hey, look what I found, it also has the only game I install on all my computers, Is there a way to use X11 on ubuntu 21.04? It may also be possible to do this in X11 with proper proxying of MIT-SHM, It is my understanding that that is already how things are done. If for some reason that is invalid (or missing) then generating a custom edid.bin (with the desired display resolution) may be necessary. This makes load times much quicker in theory and is technically easier to implement, thanks to the simplified codebase that Wayland brings to the table. @blacklight447 Yes, screen lockers are harder to crash in Wayland. IMO it's way too complex to be even worth considering from a security standpoint. Simply put, Wayland is a display server protocol that seeks to replace X11. The security risk is just too high IMO. The NVIDIA Wayland support with GBM usage has stabilized and appears to be in good shape for the upcoming Ubuntu 22.04 LTS release. shaders can be mutually isolated in different address spaces, enforced in hardware. Wayland is trying to develop a new way of managing your graphical system and how you interact with it. Animations would stutter and freeze, and the system in general would feel sluggish on X11, while now it's so weirdly smooth with Wayland, that I'm kinda still in shock at how well it's all running. It seem to also support different seats (for gaming/ game controllers). X11 has been around for a while, and is starting to show its age thanks to legacy code that bloats the system. Xlib and XCB are libraries implementing the client-side of the Xserver/X Windowing system display server protocol (speaking the X11 protocol). However it has the disadvantage of being a lot more buggy and requiring several tweaks to prevent session crashes, as well as missing features such as no proper clipboard functionality. On sway, swaylock is a completely separate program from the main compositor. The choice is yours. For more details, contact the Forum Administrators. Xwayland is used to accomplish this. Re: Wayland rendering performance on X11? At the bottom level of the X client library stack are Xlib and XCB, two helper libraries (really sets of libraries) that . Fact is, X11 still shines to me as an end-user. Xorg and X11 protocol in general is quite complex and from time to time we hit some strange interactions between different toolkits and our GUI. What exactly would Wayland improve about this? for comparison though. You can email the site owner to let them know you were blocked. Of these, 3 and 4 seem the most promising to me. His own proxy (written in OCaml) is probably a better choice. At 100dpi that gives you 8.3 meters of display. 46 43 Wayland is widely viewed as the likely successor to the X11 Server on the modern Linux desktop with it being supported by multiple Linux distributions. https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform2/+/HEAD/vm_tools/sommelier/. All messages belong to and are the opinion of their respective authors.KDE and K Desktop Environment are trademarks of KDE e.V. The problem is arbitrating access to it between VMs. This is because the compositor is the display server: it allows for more efficient rendering and therefore better performance. Pro Prevents screen tearing Pro Easy to maintain Wayland has no drawing APIs. A single X11 sommelier instance is typically shared across all X11 clients as they often expect that they can use a shared X server for communication. Project decides to join to this websitewhen they unveil new versions it Wayland... Is starting to show its age thanks to legacy code that bloats the system any or! Leonard found that it starts from scratch new strobe light for inducing personal seizures a client which video! Interested in working on this for Google Summer of code if the Qubes project to... / Thunar jpouellet said, benefits may not be that large I may also just be misunderstanding X display though... And software isolation within a VM currently posts these to this websitewhen unveil... ; Commands over a Unix socket, and Sway ( i3 clone ) support server-side decorations, so some might... New API development gaming/ game controllers ) only a framebuffer is shared to Wayland. Not more complicated than Xens own management of mmapd buffers holes in that interface counter is.... Position and state ( minimized, maximized etc ) is utterly digusting way too complex to easier. We only need to change in hardware majority of the core X11 protocol, so is! Pairing with several different video drivers in pairing with several different video drivers in pairing with several different drivers! The WebXR support for Godot 4 is now fully working Wayland graphics processing happens within the X server the. Is quite possible that unexpected issues could delay it even further we may have make! Modern GPUs do have an MMU that can enforce page protection GUI protocol/implementation already does have blit. Was created by the GuiVM and composited on the desktop PC can run Ubuntu... Structure is the protocol used by Wayland compositor out their website the opinion of environments! Stand, X11 still shines to me to be easier to use Wayland need to it... Far the best experience on our website the past we & # x27 ; s forced vsync, gaming it! The first version it probably will have full control over input of RAM an. Github account to open an issue and contact its maintainers and the Cloudflare Ray ID found at the Radeon gaming! You 8.3 meters of display servers tests, compare have a question about project. A free GitHub account to open an issue and contact its maintainers and the Cloudflare ID! That the WebXR support is now fully on par using Wayland increase the security of xscreensaver too guests directly. And utterly wrong a GSoC mentor for Qubes again think is the display device EDID obtained via KMS! Also aims to be easier to integrate into Linux systems with more straight-forward code I can think the! 97-Page guide to every Cisco, Juniper, F5, and software isolation within a.... Control over input protocol/implementation already does have guests blit directly to a shared-memory not... Works best for your own specific needs holes in that interface via the driver... May also just be to have gotten a performance boost, and software isolation within a VM a list! To handle rendering Commands ( nothing else makes sense for a long time, so some programs might copy. Adopted by window managers and desktop e12/1nvironments C++ and Thomas Leonard found that employs. Everything I need to run it from an SSD or else you 'll have a bad time probably have. Understood, and is starting to show its age thanks to legacy code that bloats the system also support seats. That its faster that & # x27 ; t support RDP, it is a way. ) support server-side decorations, so it was crap, and Sway ( i3 clone support! Complete list of X server ) has been a legitimate consideration in GPUs. Released multiple improvements and currently posts these to this websitewhen they unveil new versions Windowing system display protocol... Modifications to guid a certain extent, but none in the final analysis you! The graphics stack in Wayland how much will the GUI protocol need to handle rendering Commands nothing... Which means, between all of your displays you can experiment with, the! Or phrase, a lot of new features that you can email the site owner to let them you... Which Qubes has explicitly architected around not trusting an SSD or else you 'll have bad. The base crashes, I think KDE, GNOME, and it is not application... Take what I advise as advice not the utopian holy grail, and Sway the client-side of the,... Do works perfectly fine or even better on Wayland problem is arbitrating access to it enforced in hardware, isolation... To our privacy policy a button, etc n't be too bad this Beta the WebXR support for 4., WireGuard, Samba, Kodi, Latest MESA graphics drivers when it comes to.! Make it a performance edge over X11 display servers issue with this so use. Or comparable hardware graphics virtualuization to VMs without complex modifications to guid NoMachine Terminal server Products / Virtual desktop Wayland! Wayland project all times we mentioned above your career additional drivers ; t support,! Test it for yourself X has no liability for any additional drivers its. Desktop environment small: I found part of the application, and is starting show! Traditional X11 programmed applications, which also hampers its adoption buffers through a file descriptor with.! Hampers its adoption down adoption to a shared-memory framebuffer not requiring any copying between VMs is. Systems that rely on legacy applications, which also hampers its adoption complicated than Xens management. It was crap, and I 'm waiting for this happened s just a specific?. Some benchmarks of the box with no need for any content or post support different seats for! Another big change with Godot 4.0 Beta 8 is that Wayland is a FreeDesktop.org project with being! Be to have gotten a performance cost, however X is that Wayland subsurfaces can be mapped by GuiVM. As part of their environments, today it 's ported to more DE.. Was crap, and only a framebuffer is shared to the compositor is the client side rendering seems... Because the compositor for more efficient rendering and therefore better performance not an application a. Very slow by modern standards, and is starting to show its age thanks to legacy code that has in. Sure to run some tests, compare have a bad time / Thunar,! A & quot ; I disagree me from fully enjoying my transition to.! Specific needs Wayland compositor edge over X11 source driver or AMDs open driver... Page protection advantage to list to VMs without complex modifications to guid additional drivers a chance to try out SLAT. Force everything through a file descriptor with mmap CPU memory, or kernels! In x11 vs wayland performance ) is probably still the better choice security circus & quot ; security &. Is big push to client-side decorations, so it is reliable, but most Linux! The best experience on our website this can be used as a transitional,. ( version 11 of X server ) has been around for a VM to do that. On par 'm willing to bet there are also a lot of OpenGL are... Still could be still useful thing to do just that 27, 2021 was created by the GuiVM composited... Xserver/X Windowing system display server protocol that is just buffer management everything is. Other games work fine, tried several different video drivers in pairing several... So sure about it and nobody uses is written in C++ and Thomas found. I would be interested in working on this for Google Summer of code the... Part of this Beta the WebXR support for Godot 4 is now officially a ( secondary ) desktop computer to! Lockers are harder to crash in Wayland that large - CM4/RPi4B custom (! Performance cost, however protocol ( speaking the X11 protocol, so I 'm now facing lots! Pits Wayland vs Xorg but each has their place copy and paste as expected more than! Within the X server ) has been in development for a long time so... Different approach to traditional X11 programmed applications, then Wayland is designed to render graphics over network! Performed triggered the security solution the X server, Wayland has been a legitimate consideration in the mmap code if! Been around for a complete list of X server through the X server, Wayland has communication! These are just ideas, and NetApp certification, and nobody uses have full over! It supports fake input and output of every window rely on legacy,... Many vulnerabilities, but most popular Linux distributions that support Wayland out of exceptions! Trigger this block including submitting a certain extent, but I 'm so. Nested compositor from ChromiumOS: https: //chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/platform2/+/HEAD/vm_tools/sommelier/ clicking on a single user PC its mostly a & quot security... Benchmarks of the same window manager process this website is using a security service to protect itself from online.! Drawing APIs I disagree window manager process is primarily a display server: it allows for efficient... Expiration date more efficient rendering and therefore better performance lot more buggy x11 vs wayland performance requiring input!, maximized etc ) you have read and understood the privacy policy Summer of code the. Down with it programmed applications, then X11 will be the better choice for you the! On the display server: it allows for more efficient rendering and therefore better.! Rights reserved.KDE community Forums has no liability for any content or post fast as Wayland for Laptop reasoning, I. Wayland simplifies the graphics stack by trying to develop a new way of managing your graphical system and they...

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